Episode 11
· 45:42
00:00 - 08:10
Mike
Could you talk a little bit more about just the dads daughters and dating?
So I just wonder what that whole experience is like to go through that as a father to to have your daughter get engaged.
22:01 - 25:13
Matt
Well, a lot depends, Luke. Do you like the boy?
26:11 - 34:11
Mike
What would you tell other men who are going through or eventually will go through that as well? Like, all of us are going to experience that.
INTRO
Mike
Welcome to Dad Pod. I’m Mike.
Luke
And I’m Luke. We're friends here in Madison, and we both have kids. And at least for us, becoming a dad has been transformational. We talked to all sorts of dads in all sorts of situations to learn from the unique challenges, lessons, and evolutions. The goal is simple. Learn from each other to become better dads.
Mike
If you dig it, please find us on Apple or Spotify and click follow. That single click helps put us in front of more dads, which Luke would really appreciate.
01:12 - 01:40
Luke
All right, everybody, welcome to today's episode of The Dad Pod. And we are here today with our very good friend Matt. Matt has a super interesting background. He's one of the most prominent investors in the health tech space, having invested in over 100 companies. Most importantly for today's podcast, his loving father and husband. Matt, thank you so much for joining us today from your bunker in Saint Louis.
01:42 - 01:54
So where are we? Where we thought we could get started is just to hear what is your overall strategy? What do you think about what you're trying to do as a father as it relates to your kids? How would you describe what your fathering strategy is?
01:55 - 02:40
Matt
If I had to answer that question, I'd say I try to do three things. Number one, I try to talk to my kids as adults. If it didn't work, I had to bring the conversation down to a level where they could get to and understand. Number two, I always tried to trust them until they proved me otherwise wrong, and then we had to revisit those rules. And then number three, I tried to show my focus on family by prioritizing downtime, weekends, vacations to be with family. Whether it was just my daughters and my wife. But quite often we would vacation with my parents. So the importance of family is, we've through I think our family narratives.
02:40 - 02:46
Luke
How did you develop those as your three go to? What was their kind of boil it down process?
02:47 - 03:35
Matt
This is an example of when you're going through the front windshield. You don't, it doesn’t even work. But in the rearview mirror it comes together nicely. I'll tell you a great story. So my kids were little. We'd go to the place where I played tennis at the school, and then they go swimming, and we played monkey in the middle, and I was the biggest kid, so I'd be in the middle, and my kids are like five and six, and they'd be saying, “Matt!”. And the woman around the pool, look at me and say, “Are they your stepchildren, sir?”
“Oh no, they’re my kids.” “So, why are they calling you Matt?”
“It's my name. They’re not saying it disrespectfully. It's my name, they call me Matt if they do it respectfully.” So my kids call us Matt and Lisa.
03:35 - 04:42
Luke
That's awesome. I've always thought about the concept as extending trust. I've learned that the hard way of what it's like to not extend trust, or what it's like to be on the other side of that. I'm interested. How is that played out? What were the times on a worked and what were the times perhaps that may have backfired or been or been more tricky?
03:51 -
Matt
So I'm really lucky. My kids are really good kids and it's mostly worked all the time. And so, where my kids have downtime, what do they want to do? They want to spend it with their family. So we've had very few incidents where I can't even really think of any where that trust barrier was broken, but you let out more leash right?
When you have little kids, it's little things. As the kids get older, it's big things that it comes down to. You know, when they start driving, when they start getting interested in dating, when they have curfews and you're very focused on there are some rules, will explain the rules, and why they're worth. And my kids, for the most part, have lived by those rules, and they've incorporated it into their lives as they're 23 and 24 today.
04:43 - 05:14
Mike
Could you talk a little bit more about that first principle as well? So because that is something I think about in terms of, you know, I recall specific situations from my childhood where people talk to me like I was just an equal, on equal footing with them. And I really responded to that. And so that's something that through my the threat of my life, I've kind of always respected when people did that. And I'm curious kind of from your parental perspective, how you utilize that, how that and how that played out with your as your kids grew.
05:14 - 06:28
Matt
I just think it's the way I'm wired, right? I'm wired to be a teacher, to explain things, not to just dictate this is how it's going to be. And, that's how I'm wired. And I try to explain it. If it didn't make sense, it was up to them to say, I don't get it. Having girls is different than boys. I come from a family of two boys, I two girls. These young ladies are negotiating shebags. So you know what you realize quite quickly is mom's always going to say yes, dad's always going to say no. Let's just go to mom first. We don't even need to talk to their mom unless I'm says no. And then we'll try dad.
So the first question is always, have you discussed this before with your mother? And that's how these things sort of play out. And you learn about each kid and they're learning some life skills because eventually they're going to be in school, they're going to be working, they're going to be in groups and communities that have pecking orders. And if you treat everyone with respect, whether it be the older or whether it be someone underneath you, those are life skills that I think speak volumes about who you are.
06:28 - 07:27
Luke
I think that's interesting to hear you explain it through the lens of, it's a way to instill a principle of respect that really resonates. It makes me to digress slightly, like it reminded me of a very clear lesson. My dad was not into lessons but every now and then he would drop one and he was a small town lawyer. So one of those like hanging a shingle, people come in off the street, you know, 7000 person town. There's not that, you know, everybody knows everybody. So your reputation is kind of everything. And I remember him very specifically telling me he's like the most powerful people in my world as a lawyer is everybody's secretary. When you step foot and come into an office business, whatever it might be, those are the people who decide whether your question or request goes on the top of the pile or the bottom of the pile, and how you treat those people is one of the most telling things about your character. It was exactly what you're talking about. This lesson of respect.
07:27 - 08:06
Matt
Yeah, my kids see it all the time. I remember when I was a kid, my grandfather was the supervisor of a town in the Catskills in New York called South FallsBurg, and he knows everyone in the town. And I would walk around with them. We'd go into the bank, he'd say hello to everyone, how are you doing? Everything okay? And that's just a way of treating everyone with respect. I love food, we go to restaurants, the ones I really like. I try to get to know the people who work there. You treat them with respect. They treat you with respect. Which embarrasses my kids a little bit. But one thing extra it makes them feel good.
08:08 - 08:10
Luke
The proof is literally in the pudding.
08:13 - 08:43
Mike
Going along with that, did you have to help them understand that there's an amount of proactivity or initiation required from your kids in this situation, or you're giving them trust, you're kind of talking to them at, you know, starting from the highest level. You're talking to them, and they have to be the one to raise their hand to say, hey, I need you to clarify that, or, hey, I have this question that requires them to take a kind of a step.That's what I'm hearing.
08:44 - 10:23
Matt
That's the way I operate it. But remember, each family dynamic is different. And in my family, I would argue, my wife was the CEO, is the CEO of the house. I may be the chairman of the board, but she's the glue that holds it together. She's the one who gave up her career to say, I want to raise our two kids to make sure they're great people. So we get excited about the future of the world. So she was always the first line of defense. She was always around. She was the one active in school. She was the one who bonded with them and got to know their friends to make sure you’re picking good friends because of not. That's not me. Now I would go, I was the fun guy. I remember going to parent teacher night for our oldest daughter in first grade. Each kid wrote a letter to the parents on the door. And we go, let's form their daughter's letter. And the letter reads something like this. Mom and dad, I love you so much. Mom, you cook for us, you clean, you take us around. You are awesome! Dad, you are so much fun. When you're around we're playing kickball, soccer. We go, we do all this fun stuff. And my wife is like, they view me as the maid. And I'm like, no, you're getting the view of a six year old. And over time, that view changes and she is the glue or the centerpiece and I, I'm more in the background, but it's about knowing your role and the relationship, Mike. Right, I wasn't the front line. I was maybe the second line.
10:23 - 10:33
Luke
I'm always interested how people get to that conclusion. Was that a discussion you had? Was it before you had kids? During kids? How did you figure that out?
10:33 - 11:30
Matt
Great question Luke. So we were living in Manhattan. We had one kid. My wife went back to work four days a week. We hired a nanny to come in and oversee things. But she realized the fifth day when she was off supposed to be with a kid, just getting bombarded with work. We had our second kid 17 months later, and I said to her, it's up to you to determine what you want to do. If you want to keep working, I’m supportive, if you want to stay home with the kids, I was supportive. We'll make it work either way. That to me, it was not my decision because it wasn't my play forward, it wasn't my life that was being affected. And she made the decision with my full support and she loved doing it. And she is as close to my daughters as anyone could be. She, as I said, is the glue to our family. I don't think you could before you get there, Luke. It’s another way of saying it, because things change.
11:30 - 11:31
Luke
A 100%. Yeah.
11:31 - 11:38
Mike
Were there any challenges that you ran into in that type of division of labor?
11:38 - 12:28
Matt
Of course there are challenges, Mike. When you have the point person doing stuff that you don't agree with. They are usually challenges, right? I like to joke. My wife and I didn't have a fight ‘till we had kids. You know, very different work compliments. We are not very similar. So we approach things very differently, but our values and where we want to end up is very similar. But there are some times when, you know, look, you're the CEO, you're doing things, making decisions where if you're not the CEO, that's the CEO's call. You just gotta bite your tongue and say, maybe that's a private conversation. Maybe. But you just got to understand your role in the family unit, and you got to play that role. If that's the game approach you've set up.
12:28 - 12:41
Mike
Is that then the route you took was, you know, hey this item falls into my area. I'll hear what you have to say. But then I'm going to make the call and you're going to live with it. Did you have a way to resolve?
12:41 - 13:45
Matt
Sure way. I don't think it's as black and white as that. I think there are some areas that are clearly in each other's area of expertise. So in my house, right, I pay the bills. My wife, she's the amazing chef. If someone's going to say for my birthday, I'd like to do this, that's going to go to my wife. I have no role in that. I'm like, sure, but there are some areas where, you know, you're treading on dangerous or tenuous ground. You've got to be self-aware enough to say, why don't I solicit my partner for their input on this before I decide? Yeah. And the best thing about this is, these are a lot of the same behaviors that my parents modeled for me. My parents, my wife calls them the Donna, we call this the Donna Reed family because they, I lived in a world that everything worked the way I thought it should. And we're trying to replicate that, maybe improve the margins, but it really worked and worked well. So no need to rewrite or recreate something that I had firsthand knowledge for growing up and how it were.
13:45 - 14:40
Luke
You're hitting on something that I've through the process of this podcast, I've really come to really be fascinated by this. The way I've thought about it is for some of us, we are lucky enough to be born into a family environment where it allows us to kind of innately trust our parenting instinct. When we think back and we say, oh, the way I was brought up generally thumbs up, right? Like, I did a pretty good job versus there's plenty of people out there. When you ask that question, their response is literally my intuition. I basically do the opposite because how I was brought up, right? I so deeply disagree with it's really interest. You know, at the beginning of this part of the conversation, we were asking, where are these three things come from? And now it's making sense. You know, it's like really where these things came from. Is your intuition, your part of the population where you could deeply trust your parenting intuition because you trusted where you came from?
14:40 - 15:00
Matt
That's well said. Luke. My wife had a different growing up experience. That's why I think I even get involve as a mentor today. It's because you've got these experiences that have worked and you want to share them to increase the probability of success for others out there. Totally.
15:00 - 15:18
Luke
Totally. You've kind of mentioned it the first time you referenced the CEO versus the chairman role here, and you've been a prolific investor. You literally invested in over 100 companies. What have you taken from that experience and in what ways do you think it's tangibly impacted the way you are a dad?
15:18 - 16:28
Matt
I think being a parent and being an investor or CEO, because in fact, I was like the CEO of the fun. They're very synergistic. They create and put different pressures or stresses on you. But the way you respond to those are very similar. How do I prioritize our time or my time, are we running after the right thing right now? I think they make the other side of you stronger. Oh, I also think they made me more aware, like when my wife would travel when I was a single parent, or about the single parents on my team, and how much harder their life is than those who come from a more traditional family environment. I was able, because of our situation and my wife, to put my all under 50% into what I was doing during the week, and I did, but for some people, they can't do that. And having that self-awareness, being able to see things from the other side, these are all important life skills that make you a better parent, better executive, better entrepreneur, better investor.
16:28 - 16:47
Luke
Yeah. Were there any again, thinking about being having a kind of view into all these different companies, all these different leaders, all these different executives? Were there any moments of like, oh, I'm definitely not going to do that kind of seeing patterns or seeing behaviors. Where you kind of had the ability to see things that don't work?
16:47 - 16:50
Matt
As a parent or as an investor or both?
16:51 - 18:50
I think it's much easier when you're dealing adult to adult and you know you're an investor in a venture board where you're not a control investor. You have to use your words very carefully and be very persuasive to have influence. And you have to use and build trust over a period of time.I think the same is true in your family environment. It's reminding me maybe of a fourth thing from your first question. And one of the other things I always tried to do is to always, could we have a good time without spending a lot of money. But I did that in part because I wanted my kids to be able to pursue whatever career life path they wanted.
And if they could always go biking, hiking, whatever without it costing money like scuba diving, they could be happy and find fulfillment. So I don't know. I haven't given it as much thought, but I think there's many more similarities of them strengthening each other, Luke. Than them seem in a board meeting, because the dynamic is different than in a family environment. I have noticed when my kids were younger, when we go places, I'm a foodie. I would pick out the places we go for dinner or lunch because I try to find experiences and I get rates. A lot of my routing work, not 100,000, but the kids remind me when we're at a hole in the walls or places that get great Yelp reviews that close down. But now I am also developing these kinds of skills. And it's not because I said, you should do this. It just happens. It just happens because they see the joy, the communication that happens when you spend time together with people you love. And a lot of that happens over breaking bread.
18:51 - 18:54
Luke
If you like, we're going to send you a version of Kitchen Confidential.
18:57 - 19:25
Mike
Having been able to observe a lot of different professional environments and situations, have you observed any other like do's and don'ts for individual dads? So you've, you know, you've seen men in at at the executive level and you've been able to observe them. And we have listeners who are, you know, who are in similar situations and are trying to figure out the balance and what their value system is and all of that. Like, what have you observed.
19:25 - 20:44
Matt
To me, family comes first. That comes before the job. That. Right. I think you have to understand what your values are. I have seen some people put their job first. That usually doesn't end well for their relationships. So if you put your family first and as the CEO or chairman of the board, you know you have to model the right kinds of behaviors. That makes it easier for you to do the right thing. I've seen plenty of situations where CEOs did not do the right thing, tried to scratch my head and understand why. Try to talk to them about it. Try to talk to maybe the chairman of the board or another board member who had influence about it. But when you see these situations, each company's board, you see that end of one, as Luke could tell you, I don't know.
But the readouts board was like, but there are some people I know on that board. These are good people. You're in a good place. You could learn, but there are plenty of boards that were not good that didn't make the right decision in the best interest of the company, but were focused more on their own individual incidents and his or those memories away, too. Because as Ben Franklin, once it takes a lifetime to build a reputation, but an instant to lose it.
20:44 - 21:25
Luke
Yeah. No, it's it's fascinating to hear you. Your comment is making me reflect on what it's like to try. And because as a CEO, especially as a first time CEO, the whole question of what are my values are not clear, right? Like usually you're coming of age in the same kind of way. Your company is coming of age. And then I, I hadn't thought about it in this way, but the context of who is on the board is actually a huge part of it, right? In terms of what's going to be supported, what's going to be pushback on whether openly or kind of subversively. It's a fascinating. I hadn't thought about the kind of influence of the board when it comes to comes to that kind of stuff.
21:25 - 21:52
Matt
I tell folks, look, when you pick an investor, you should think of it as a marriage because it's not a, you know, six months work. It's a multi-year deal and more than enough time. Do the diligence, get to know them, break bread, talk to them about family and values, because these are people whose input you're going to be signing up to take and incorporate into the direction of the business.
21:52 - 22:06
Luke
Yeah. And I think in many ways I got, part of my reflection was a sense of just feeling lucky because I to your point, you know, some of the people who are on who are on my board that there was high value alignment, but that was not a foregone conclusion I guess.
22:06 - 22:10
Matt
Well, you didn't diligence that up front that you just got lucky.
22:10 - 22:27
Luke
I mean, I thought I diligence it right as much as I could, but again, I did the thing right. You talk to every CEO who you can find who has worked with that person. But at the end of the day, there's still some level of luck because you never really know until you're in seat and you're not up into the right. That's where you really find out.
22:27 - 23:11
Matt
The way that translates into family life is folks would hear you at the dinner table, right, talking about what you did. And my kids know when you make big decisions, you do your own work and due diligence for sure. So that's part of, you know, the interesting thing is, around my dinner table, when I was growing up, my parents would ask, how was your day? And there'd be silence because two boys, we didn't talk that much. We wanted to go out and play. My house with two girls. How was your day? I was done, I just I just got to listen about, you know, every detail. We got to really feel like we knew the kids in their grade and their friends, and…
23:11 - 23:12
Luke
That's amazing.
23:12 - 23:19
Matt
It's really nice stuff because there's where I'm born. If I wasn't traveling, I was home at 5:00 for dinners.
23:19 - 23:33
Were there other business principles that you tried to translate? So you mentioned the diligence, the importance of diligence and big decisions. Was there other key concepts that you tried to to translate for them?
23:34 - 25:16
Matt
I think so, I think I always tried to treat people with respect. So in companies it's not always up until the right. There are when times are tough. A lot of folks keep their cards closer to the vest. We would try at least what I advocated for and I tried to do, is be a transparent communicator and consider all angles. Both those who are participating, those who weren't, those who were doing well, those who weren't to try to come up with a solution that treated everybody fairly. Now, the bad situation folks are going to be happy. But to put your perspective out there, I always tried to do that. And when things don't go well at home, try to talk about them.
So it's just us treating people with respect, I think is a really big deal. Doing your diligence, investing in your reputation, mission, orientation. Right. Most venture investors are not mission oriented. I work for a not for profit hospital system. It got me closer to the mission and that made me feel good. That made me feel like I was closer to where folks need help. And also my daughters are pursuing health care careers. They want to help people so. Did I talk about that? No. But does it make me feel good that they're continuing this mission orientation to help patients in need? Yeah, it makes me feel real good. I'm real proud, dad. And like one of the reasons I feel optimistic about our future is I've met their friends and they're friends are well-intentioned, good people to just need to move from getting these 80 year olds out of senior office and start to turn it over to the younger people.
25:17 - 25:20
Luke
So I couldn't agree more. Totally, this was a political podcast.
25:20 - 25:23
Mike
And that's as close as it will get to politics.
25:27
Luke
You've mentioned it a few times, but I think the way I've heard you describe it is you put it in 150% during the week when it was, you know, time for your job. And then when you were home, you were really dedicated to your family. How did you do that? I mean, it's coming from somebody who's attempted to do that. And I would say probably didn't do it very well. What were the key things that really allowed you to be 100, you know, running at 150 miles an hour on one side and then to be present with your, with your family on the other side.
25:55 - 26:56
Matt
So part of it was the work aspect, which is I had a great team who I trusted in, who could do stuff, and I figured out a way to get done what I needed to do during the week. So the weekends were set up for the kids. So like when, like we moved to Saint Louis. My kids were young. Like Saturday mornings. I would take the kids to first wash for breakfast every Saturday so my wife could sleep late and have a lazy morning. They asked me to coach the basketball teams. I had two daughters. I have to treat them the same. So I said the only day I know I'm going to be home is Friday nights. So if you want to have practice Friday nights, I could be your coach. So I coached those daughter’s teams for like 4 or 5 years. We had practices Friday night.
So you just figure out a way to make it work. And if we didn't have plans, well, we're going out for dinner, the four of us, and we're going to give you, like, these many adult experiences. And that to me is how I did it.
26:56 - 27:12
Mike
Something I like to ask you sort of in combination with, with this topic is then, how did you think about your own care for yourself, making sure that you're in the right state? Both for the work and for the family? Like where did you fit yourself into that?
27:12 - 28:02
Matt
So for me, I think everyone needs a release, a place where the mind turns off. And for me, until I was 55, I was playing basketball. So when I lived in New York City, I organized a Saturday pickup game with 15 to 20 guys every Saturday for an hour and a half. When I moved to Saint Louis, I got introduced to guys and I organized the game on Wednesday evenings. That became my camaraderie, exercise, clear the head and it does wonders. You need that. That is how I dealt with it. I encouraged everyone and I still do to find your release, find your happy place. So we go to vacation every year with my parents. We went to the same place because it brought everyone happiness.
28:02 - 28:05
Mike
Now that you're 56, what do you do?
28:06 - 28:14
Matt
I'm a little older than that, but now I've been playing tennis, Mike. And I unfortunately not as well as I was I played basketball.
28:15 - 28:17
Mike
Singles or doubles?
28:18 - 28:23
Matt
I play a little of both. I play singles one day a week, and doubles one day.
28:23 - 28:26
Mike
What does doubles tell you about communication?
28:32 - 28:33
Matt
Pick the right partner.
28:37 - 28:46
Luke
I’m picturing you working on your back then, and you're like, this is not my happy place. This is not my happy place.
28:46 - 29:05
Matt
So, all our listeners out there. Tennis is a great sport because you could play it as you get older, start your kids when they're young. Start your kids when they're young. Because I was too busy playing baseball and I didn't. I should have invested the time in tennis because I'd be so much better today.
29:05 - 29:23
Luke
You've mentioned your daughters are in their 20s, and I and I know through conversation that one of them has recently been engaged. So I just wonder what that whole experience is like to go through that. As a father to to have your daughter get engaged.
29:23 - 30:36
Matt
Well, a lot depends. Luke, do you like the boy? So, fortunately, we really like the boy. I think the experience can be a really good one. It's different. Right? If you're the father of daughters versus the father of sons. And as a father of daughters, what matters most to me is will this person treat my daughter with respect through thick or thin? Will they love them through good times and bad.
If you're a father of a boy, you probably you have other criteria. But with a daughter that to me was criteria one. At least my daughter met her fiance now when they were in seventh grade. And first time I heard his name, they went to, a Grand Canyon trip. My daughter fell and got a booboo. And who was there to help her with her booboo? It was this boy. It was this boy. And here we are. Eight years later, they're getting engaged. We now celebrate Thanksgivings with them. Wonderful boy, wonderful family. It's, really nice.
30:37 - 33:39
Luke
Talk about playing the long game.
30:41- 30:47
Matt
It's just Saint Louis thing, Luke. If this were New York, it won’t happen that way.
30:47 - 30:54
Mike
Could you talk a little bit more about just the dads, daughters, and dating?
30:55 - 30:58
Luke
Yeah, it's a great question.
30:58 - 32:29
Matt
I'm not the best expert on this because my oldest daughter has been dating the same boy for eight years and engaged. The younger daughter, first boyfriend, five years and now living together. Now we're there boys lurking who we didn't like? Yes. And you've got to just. And this is where my wife's got an incredible skill of communicating, some of this stuff, in ways the kids understand without her saying, no, don't do that. So my wife is an amazing communicator. She used to be in marketing and sales for an ad agency. And one of her gifts is the ability to tell you news you don't want to hear with a smile on her face and for it to sink in.
So she is the communicator extraordinaire in our family, and she had to have a few conversations because, you know, you got to see it more in high schools and college. When they were around to see what was going on. My wife's got really involved with my daughters and their friends so she could play that role and make sure she could give good advice, right?
I was the coach. I was the fun guy. I was one of the few dads who go on Girl Scout camp outs where it would get dark and they'd say, you go to the men's bunk. Because you know, you can’t sleep with all these young girls, so there would be snoring in the men's bunk.
32:31 - 32:33
Luke
CPAp central.
32:35 - 32:37
Mike
Set up perimeter for the bears.
32:39 - 33:04
Luke
Were these be situations. I'm going to get a little tactical. Only because I think every dad who has a daughter, myself included, my partner in crime here included, is kind of dreading these situations. Was there a literal conversation between you and your wife? It's like, we got to get this guy out. Like, how intentional was it versus how kind of in the moment or responding to the scenario?
33:04 - 33:25
Matt
So this is my wife's gift. I don't even get pulled into those a lot. I would periodically. So, you know, something doesn't seem right about that one. It's like, I'm honored that's been taking care of. My wife, this is her forte. She should write this advising moms.
33:26 - 33:34
Luke
But we've always wondered if we should have, like, after 6 or so months, we invite the, the moms to have like a point counterpoint.
33:39 - 33:41
Matt
That would be good, Luke.
33:44 - 33:49
Luke
We haven’t have the guts to venture there yet. It might scare away all of our guests.
33:50 - 33:55
Matt
That is true. But the interviews would need to be conducted by your significant other.
33:59 - 34:27
Luke
That’s nerve-wracking. Part of having a child getting engaged is, is it's like this turning of the page. And I'm wondering what it was like because you've gone, it sounds like you very intentionally built this, like very tight knit, close family unit and relatively recently everybody was in the house. Now they're living with their significant other. Like, how has that transition been for you and for your wife.
34:27 - 35:22
Matt
So to me the first thing is I think you've got, the foundation is family. So when this went down my dad was here from New York. The ring was my mom's stone. And home is home. One of my daughters lives in Saint Louis. She's starting her clinical rotation in a few weeks. So she's got some downtime. She moved back in with us with her boyfriend. Why? She goes, when I'm not on school, I want to go home. It's my comforting place. It's my happy place. And creating that environment is what it's about. I still feel that way. When I go back. It was in my daddy was in the house that I lived in when I went to high school. I always warm feelings there, and I think our job as parents is to protect but prepare for the future. And if there's something safe about being alone, that's a beautiful thing.
35:22 - 35:38
Luke
Cool to hear. That's to protect and to prepare, I love that. I think that's, that's really cool. One of the ways we where we go kind of at this point is to ask, looking forward, what are your dreams for your kids? What do you want for their future?
35:38 - 36:44
Matt
Wonderful question. I think fundamentally you want them to be happy. You want them to be fulfilled. You want them to have impact in a way that they want to have impact on the world, whether it's bringing children into the world or having impact with how they spend their time. That, to me, is what I dream about. You know, when my oldest daughter was like 3 or 4 said, what do you want to be when you grow up? She said, president. Well, now I don't think she's going to be president. She won't be the way. Who knows? But you want them to be able to dream and continue to dream. You want them to be able to laugh and have fun. You want them to be healthy, right? Health is the one thing that's mostly out of our control. You got some genetic factors. It's in their control a bit. But with health, with picking a good spouse or partner, that's the most important decision I think you make in your life. If you do that job and do it well, then the world's your oyster. You could go any place you want to go.
36:44 - 37:01
Mike
Is there anything that you grapple with at this point, like you're at a fundamentally different stage than I am. For instance. But I'm just curious when you're sitting by yourself if there's stuff you grapple with or like, what is the person in your position thinking about.
37:01 - 38:20
Matt
Mike, I went on this personal journey after I left my job and I said, am I going to retire? What am I going to do? And I went to South by Southwest. And I concluded a few things. I said, I'm not the retiring type. Business and health care are my hobbies. I said, number two, I feel this personal obligation to fix health care. Still, because I don't want to get older and sick in this health care system. Yeah. I said, number three. What gave me great satisfaction, what got me motivated? It was working with entrepreneurs. It was working with people and helping them realize their full potential. And then I said, who's got the hardest job out there? It's the entrepreneur.
So what I've done is, I'm spending my time advising entrepreneurs, mostly in health care and helping them increase their probability of success. I do it because it's rewarding, because I'm hopefully making a difference and having impact. Impact changes over time, and this is a way to keep mentally engaged. Keep learning, stay curious. And, it can be very rewarding if you connect with the right entrepreneur who are trying to advance the ball with a big vision.
38:20 - 39:14
Mike
How did you decide or come upon that framework? Because this is venturing a tad outside, sort of the father in experience from the parental perspective. But we're all going to continue aging. We're all likely to experience career shifts over the course of that timeline, and today, the probability is that men end up with a poor relationship with their spouse, they're dissatisfied with their career, and they don't have any friends.
It seems like you have avoided all of those things. So I'm curious how you, you mentioned, you know, leaving your job and kind of moving into this other, other career situation. What would you tell other men who are going through or eventually will go through that as well, like all of us are going to experience that.
39:14 - 39:53
Matt
I think the first thing is you got to be self-aware. You got to know who you are and what your strengths are, where your gaps are, what you need. I think I've got one of my friends is a big sales guy. He is around. He needs to be around people all the time. When I go see him, he's always around people. You got to know yourself first. Second. You got to figure out what moves the cheese for you. What gets you motivated and try to put yourself in those situations. So one of the things I now do, my wife plays canasta. I picked it up while they were training. So I now play canasta with my wife.
39:53 - 39:55
Mike
I have no idea what that is.
39:55 - 39:57
Matt
Look it up. It's a card game.
39:59 -
Mike
Do I spell that with a ‘K’?
40:01 - 40:05
Matt
No! With a ‘C’. Oh god!
40:05 - 40:08
Luke
Glad we're recording this in person.
40:09 - 40:20
Matt
So my wife, once a quarter, 19 women and me get together for a Canasta and Cuisine. And we eat and play canasta. I'm the only guy there.
40:20 - 40:21
Luke
That's amazing.
40:21 -
I'm grateful that they include me. But I've always liked cards. So is this surprising? No, I'm competitive. Right. Given work. So it's, you know, figure it out. As I said at the outset, it doesn't always make sense when you're living it. But when you know, a little distance, it comes together perfectly. You got to really do an honest self-assessment. And that's where I think people fall down. And it's not just you. It's talking to those who you interact with. And how many folks after Luke you left, came to you and said, how could I have been a better board member? Guess is not a many. You got to be self-aware. You got to be, do 360’s on your life with your coworkers, with those who work for you. How do they see you? I think there is a real opportunity in self-help for those really interested.
41:15 - 41:29
Luke
I think that's really, really well said. And I would agree with you that that is, a part of this kind of the story of our life. Skipping that step is very easy, because that step can be painful at times and scary at times.
41:29 - 41:59
Matt
Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect. My life isn't ideal, but it's pretty darn good. And I'm appreciative of that. And I want to share some of that wisdom because I've got these unique experiences. I'm feel pretty fortunate. Most of my friends from college are all married to their first spouses. Very few divorces occur. Pretty surprising. Most of our friends here still married to the same spouse from when their kids were in elementary school, so we feel pretty fortunate that way.
41:59 - 42:08
Mike
When you get together with those folks, what questions about life do you ask each other right now?
42:08 - 42:39
Matt
The big question is, are you going to stay in Saint Louis? for literally… And Saint Louis is a great place, family friendly, low cost of living, friendly people, but it gets God awful hot here in the summer. That to me, the big question is, are you still in Saint Louis, Matt? When they leave and where are you going? And I'm like, a lot will depend on where my kids end up. A lot will depend on where my kids end up. And if we're willing to travel back to Saint Louis.
42:39 - 42:47
Mike
Is that basically the primary pillar then for that decision? Like, how do you and your partner talk about that?
42:47 - 43:38
Matt
Wonderful question. So I think there's two strategies you could deploy, Mike. You could take a, we're going to go where we want to be that we hope the kids will want to visit. And for us our happy place is Longboat Key, Florida. So we thought about that strategy. And the other strategy is stay here and kids will continue to come back home because of those feelings of warmth and being enclosed in a one like home setting.
And then the third strategy is see where the kids end up and go to one of those places. Those are the I think, three strategies on the table. And right now one of our daughters lives ten minutes away, so we don't have to decide what we're going to do. And it may end up being we stay in Saint Louis. And if we want to go to Longboat Key for a month, we do that.
43:38 - 43:46
Mike
Do you discuss this with the kids? Like do they know that this is, there's a greater they know those three strategies?
43:47 - 44:05
Matt
I don't know if I've ever articulated it as quickly as I just did, but they know these are the strategy. These are potential strategies being contemplated. They've all got their opinions. So we live in a very transparent and surprisingly transparent household.
44:05 - 44:23
Luke
Yeah. That's awesome. Where we typically like to go to wrap up, is this to ask, imagine you're talking to somebody who's about to have their first kid or just had their first kid. What would be your advice to them as they get ready for this ride of fatherhood?
44:23 - 44:47
Matt
Enjoy the journey because it's the most exciting, fun thing you'll ever do. They will have ups and downs. It will challenge you in incredible ways, but it is to me the lasting legacy that each of us will leave on this earth. So make sure you do your job and live the world at a better place. Leave the world at a better place than leave that.
44:47 - 44:56
Luke
That's awesome. Cool. Matt, we want to thank you so much for taking the time today to go deep on so many different subjects to help Mike learn about canasta, to help us understand.
44:56 - 44:58
Mike
Got a lot of work to do, a three pronged.
44:58 - 45:06
Luke
Three pronged strategy on to move or not to move, and just want to say, we really appreciate you and your time. So thank you so much.
45:06 - 45:11
Matt
It's great to be with you both and good to see you again, Luke. Nice to meet you, Mike.
OUTRO
Mike
Before you bounce, I have a quick favor. Please subscribe to the pod. Not only does Luke love juicing those numbers, but it really does help put this thing in front of more dads.
Luke
And Mike, on the other hand, just loves juicing. We also now run a listener community on WhatsApp. To join, Visit Dad podcast FM and you'll see the delicious link at the top of the home page.
Mike
Come on in baby! We'd love to have you.
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